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jbc1949		#61	[-]
Posts: 6504 Oct 28 08 12:09 PM Camerlengo & Grand Inquisitor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On the other hand, if I'm not mistaken, the forum thread in question was lost in the massive ezboard hack from two years ago, so it's probably gone now. Indeed, Joe. I recall this incident most painfully. This was the second and literally Flame Deluge that really messed up the entire EZ Board community. The damage to the YF was irreparable in some really great posts that were lost to the cyberial ether. I still opine that inter-Western Orthodox Sarum discussions are best left to an Orthodox board. The YF is anglican in ethos and history--not that we do not engage in a bit of liturgical archeology now and again--as expressed through inter alia the Continuers, AU, and WRITE. But the YF is not WRITE itself in liturgical emphasis. I do not think that the non-Orthodox Westerners who are interested in Ecclesia Anglicana and its liturgies are very much "brand loyal" to the various implementations of the Saurum Use as a Sarum Rite or rites within the Orthodox communion. If it is sacred in orientation and theological orthodox (not just Orthodox), I do not think that there is much argument to be found herein. Saint Coleman's Prayerbook would work fine on the YF. So would Fr. Aidan's Sacramentary, and perhaps other Sarum versions. Our interests would be more descriptive in orientation than disdusswions rebutting various Saurum implementations. But then again, that is just my opinion. However, I will have to get used to blue, yellow, and bleached linen vestments! LOL Torqy "non omnis moriar" . . . Horace, Odes "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" . . . Red Green Show "They see well that all who speak are nothing, for they shall fade away with the sound of their words, but the Lord endures forever." . . . Thomas a Kempis, THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, Book 4, Chapter 14, No. 4
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PriestmonkAmbrose		#62	[-]
Posts: 87 Oct 29 08 7:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	leoxiii wrote: Our Forum camerlengo was simply being cautious, Father; so I hope you didn't take his comments personally. As he noted, we tend to err in this direction here because, in the past, intra-Orthodox discussion at the York Forum has all too often degenerated into flamewars, which resulted in one or more forum members (some not even Orthodox) leaving us and vowing never to return. _________________________________ I have found one of the threads from those bad days http://theyorkforum.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/2415 The thread commences with both yourself and the Camerlengo offering a warm welcome to Fr Aidan as a new member of the York Forum. Your welcoming posts are not at all welcome to other Western Rite people (principally the Tasmanians) and they prompt immediate responses that they disagree with your welcome and intend to hightail it out the York Forum door and shake the dust off their feet. I can see why you don't want such an uncharitable atmosphere to reappear on the Forum . It's all very distressing indeed.
jbc1949		#63	[-]
Posts: 6504 Oct 30 08 7:03 AM Camerlengo & Grand Inquisitor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There was also a "birth control" Flame Deluge. Just one of those things. We are fallen human beings living in stressful times and are stressed-out ourselves. This is why Joe and I are very cautious, but we do not mean to have subjects closed off, just carefully presented. And it has worked out well for some potentially flame war inducing subjects. One example is Limbo which sparked a very good discussion on the YF that spilled over to the EF. Differences were aired quite calmly and rationally. I really enjoyed reading and participating in this topic, especially with the comment of one of our WRITE parishioners who on both boards explained his disagreement with Limbo and vis-a-vis Baptism as necessary for salvation, stated that for all he knows the Holy Angels baptize the righteous unbaptized deceased (principally aimed at unbaptized babies) at the point of death. I too like to look at it this way, although I suggest quite strongly that one cannot disregard Limbo out of hand. Limbo should keep parents on their toes and get their newly born pagans into the Church ASAP, even if it means beating down their bishop's door and DEMANDING baptism for their little one(s). There are RC parish lay, cleric and religious wannabe bureaucracies that sometimes result in baptism of infants months after birth. Two weeks is my maximum preference. Better yet, in the hospital! One must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God. We have the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ's, words on this. What more must be said? "non omnis moriar" . . . Horace, Odes "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" . . . Red Green Show "They see well that all who speak are nothing, for they shall fade away with the sound of their words, but the Lord endures forever." . . . Thomas a Kempis, THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, Book 4, Chapter 14, No. 4
Pateraidanus		#64	[-]
Posts: 25 Nov 7 08 9:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Another good reason to baptize 'em young is sheerly practical. It's much easier than baptizing a three- or four-year-old. I'll never forget my fated baptism of a four-year-old boy with fear of water. The elect-of-God Bilfred was terrified. His little hands clung to the sides of the font and could not be pried off by any (single) human force. In the end we had four grown men trying to push him down into the water and we all got about as wet as he did. This is the same servant-of-God Bilfred who when mentioned by his saint's name in church, would speak up, "Just call me plain ol' Bill!" This year, "just plain ol' Bill" graduates high school, and I'm proud as a peacock. And, of course, all is forgiven (on both sides). Fr. Aidan+ a sinner Oremus--Roman Rite in the Orthodox Church (a polemics-free zone) Last Edited By: Pateraidanus Nov 7 08 10:00 PM. Edited 1 times.
frdavid	weighing in	#65	[-]
Posts: 1 Nov 11 08 6:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Since my name has come up several times I thought I would weigh in and give an account of myself. I was received into ROCOR by Metropolitan Hilarion on this wise: he called me into the Altar (Sanctuary) , told me to vest and then kneel at the Holy Table (Altar). He then placed his omophor and hand on me and read the ordination prayers over me straight through without ceremony. After that I concelebrated the Divine Liturgy. He later told me that he had "corrected my previous ordination". He charged me to look after Fr. Augustine Whitfield and to celebrate the Western (Mt. Royal and Sarum) and Byzantine Liturgies in my house-chapel. He also asked that I help out from time to time in surrounding parishes/missions. Holyrood is a cell of Mt. Royal and is part of the Eastern Diocese directly under the Metropolitan. It is affiliated with the other Western Rite monasteries of ROCOR (Saint Petroc and Christminster). So there you have it. Asking your prayers, In Xto, Fr. David (Pierce)
PriestmonkAmbrose		#66	[-]
Posts: 87 Nov 11 08 8:50 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	frdavid wrote: Since my name has come up several times I thought I would weigh in and give an account of myself. I was received into ROCOR by Metropolitan Hilarion on this wise: he called me into the Altar (Sanctuary) , told me to vest and then kneel at the Holy Table (Altar). He then placed his omophor and hand on me and read the ordination prayers over me straight through without ceremony. After that I concelebrated the Divine Liturgy. He later told me that he had "corrected my previous ordination". He charged me to look after Fr. Augustine Whitfield and to celebrate the Western (Mt. Royal and Sarum) and Byzantine Liturgies in my house-chapel. He also asked that I help out from time to time in surrounding parishes/missions. Holyrood is a cell of Mt. Royal and is part of the Eastern Diocese directly under the Metropolitan. It is affiliated with the other Western Rite monasteries of ROCOR (Saint Petroc and Christminster). So there you have it. Asking your prayers, In Xto, Fr. David (Pierce) ______________________________________________ Dear Father David, Allow me to say how nice it is to encounter you on the Net and to welcome you into the Russian Church Abroad. Here is a big cyber Russian bear hug from your brother monk in New Zealand! Allow me also to embarrass you by mentioning that I found it impressive that both you and Father Aidan waited patiently, 3 years and more, before being received. Fine examples of the monastic virtues of patience and stability. Here is Metropolitan Hilarion's Official Statement which will appear in the next issue of the diocesan magazine. He speaks of the Cheirothesia as the regularisation of Fr Aidan's exisiting Orders. _______________________________________ This is to certify that on Thursday, September 18, 2008, before the Divine Liturgy, celebrated in St. Sergius of Radonezh Church at the Synod of Bishops in New York City, we regularized through cheirothesia the ordination to the Holy Priesthood of Hieromonk Aidan (Keller). Hieromonk Aidan (Keller) is assigned to the Eastern America & New York Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. [seal] + Hilarion [handwritten signature] Metropolitan of Eastern America and New York, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia ____________________________________
Pateraidanus		#67	[-]
Posts: 25 Nov 14 08 10:43 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dear Father, I am very glad that we are now able to serve in the Russian Church. I wish you many happy years of service to Our Lord. And thanks for a straightforward, accurate, informative accounting. We expect updates monthly . Fr. Aidan+ a sinner
OrthoAnglo		#68	[-]
Posts: 2 Jan 14 09 9:07 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There was a post earlier regarding the discrepancy between how Fr. Michael was received and how Frs. Aidan and David were received. The main reason, I think, is to be found in history. At the time Fr. Michael came into the Church, ROCOR was a hothouse of supercorrectness and frankly, narrowmindedness. ROCOR had incorrectly begun rebaptizing everyone, even Non-Chalcedonians and Uniates and in some extreme and tragic cases Orthodox from other Jurisdictions, so it was natural that Fr. Michael would be received the way he was, given the difficult circumstances of church life in those days. Frs. Aidan and David, by contrast, have been received into the Church during a much brighter period of ROCOR history, when much of the bad attitudes of the past are being discarded. I myself was received into ROCOR by rebaptism, in spite of the fact that I was formerly a Lutheran. But as a convert to the Orthodox faith, you take what you get and thank God that He has revealed the truth to you. I certainly reject the badly misinformed ecclesiology behind my rebaptism, but I was willing to accept it so long as I could be Orthodox. So thank God I found the truth, and thank God for the Western Rite! May God bless the work and ministry of all the priests and laity of the Western Rite, and the entire Orthodox Church!
HieromonkAmbrose		#69	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 14 09 4:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OrthoAnglo wrote: There was a post earlier regarding the discrepancy between how Fr. Michael was received and how Frs. Aidan and David were received. The main reason, I think, is to be found in history. At the time Fr. Michael came into the Church, ROCOR was a hothouse of supercorrectness and frankly, narrowmindedness. ROCOR had incorrectly begun rebaptizing everyone,! Dear OrthoAnglo, Your reasoning for the reception by Baptism of the monk in question (a Continuingg Anglican and Archdeacon of London) would hold true in nearly all ROCA dioceses at the time BUT NOT in the Australian diocese which never adopted the late 1970's recommendation (it was not mandated but recommended) from the Synod to baptize all converts. The Australian Diocese insisted, as did the ROCA Bishop in Canada, on maintaining the previous traditional Russian modes of reception (which are given in the Hapgood Service Book.) I was a priest of the Serbian Orthodox Church until 1996 and as a Serbian priest I baptized everybody, including a couple of Roman Catholic priests and one nun. This was done at the direction of my Serbian bishop. BUT when the bishops moved me into ROCA in 1996 I was given explicit instructions by the ROCA Dean that I must cease these Baptisms and follow the practice of the Russian Church as given in Hapgood. So, as I say, while your rationale would apply in most ROCA diocese, it did not apply in Australia. --- HELP! Has the Forum been hacked? My avatar has disappeared. My profile gender has been changed to Female and my age to 2009 !! Last Edited By: HieromonkAmbrose Jan 14 09 4:27 PM. Edited 1 times.
jbc1949	Responsio	#70	[-]
Posts: 6504 Jan 14 09 5:26 PM Camerlengo & Grand Inquisitor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OrthoAnglo, Welcome to the York Forum! Father Ambrose, Hacked? It could also be some errant programming. The previous version of the YF (pre Yuku) used to have some snarky software happenings. Perhaps our illustrious cyber-Pontiff, Leo XIII (a/k/a Joe O.), will check it out. Jim C. Camerlengo and moderator pro tempore "non omnis moriar" . . . Horace, Odes "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" . . . Red Green Show "They see well that all who speak are nothing, for they shall fade away with the sound of their words, but the Lord endures forever." . . . Thomas a Kempis, THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, Book 4, Chapter 14, No. 4
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HieromonkAmbrose		#71	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 14 09 5:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	jbc1949 wrote: Hacked? It could also be some errant programming. Yes, that's most likely the case. Unless York has been attacked by Lancaster again?
leoxiii		#72	[-]
Posts: 3521 Jan 15 09 6:56 AM Cyber-Pontiff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Father Ambrose - I believe the cause is simple: Duality. You seem to have two separate Yuku accounts: one is HieromonkAmbrose, and the other is PriestmonkAmbrose. Only one seems to be missing the profile settings. Joe
HieromonkAmbrose		#73	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 15 09 1:59 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	leoxiii wrote: I believe the cause is simple: Duality. You seem to have two separate Yuku accounts: one is HieromonkAmbrose, and the other is PriestmonkAmbrose. Only one seems to be missing the profile settings. Thanks, Joe. I had no idea I have two accounts. I believe there is some witchery afoot. The "Hieromonk Ambrose" account gives my age as 13 !!!!!
jbc1949		#74	[-]
Posts: 6504 Jan 15 09 7:31 PM Camerlengo & Grand Inquisitor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh that's great! (The heresy of) Dualism has struck the York Forum! Now where the heck has my cyber-rack gone???? Torqy "non omnis moriar" . . . Horace, Odes "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" . . . Red Green Show "They see well that all who speak are nothing, for they shall fade away with the sound of their words, but the Lord endures forever." . . . Thomas a Kempis, THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, Book 4, Chapter 14, No. 4
OrthoAnglo		#75	[-]
Posts: 2 Jan 24 09 1:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Fr. Ambrose, Thank you for clearing up that detail for me. I had thought rebaptism was mandatory in ROCOR during that time, but I see that it was not, which is good. It gives me even greater hope for Metropolitan Hilarion's tenure as the first hierarch of ROCOR. And I'm glad to be here. Thanks for the welcome!
PriestmonkAmbrose	Christminster becomes stavropegial institution	#76	[-]
Posts: 87 Mar 5 09 4:17 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Christminster becomes stavropigial institution On Sunday, 1 March/16 February 2009, notice was received from Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, that the monastery and mission of Christminster and Our Lady of Glastonbury Orthodox Church, in Hamilton, Ontario, would henceforth be directly under the archpastoral oversight of the Metropolitan himself, assisted by his Vicar Bishop Jerome, Bishop of Manhattan. Bishop Gabriel, the ruling Bishop of Canada, had requested this change in light of his own lack of familiarity with the Orthodox western rite and its usages. Bishop Jerome, the former Father John Shaw, is a long-time friend of Christminster and a scholar deeply learned in western liturgics. We are grateful to each of these hierarchs for their pastoral concern for the well-being of our mission and work http://www.westernorthodox.ca/ -oOo- --
HieromonkAmbrose		#77	[-]
Posts: 11 Dec 28 09 12:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Establishment of Western Rite Missions in the UK by the Russian Orthodox Church England now has an active Western Rite mission in two or three locations, thanks to the labours of Fr Michael (Mansbridge-Wood), an Australian monk in the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. See http://sarisburium.blogspot.com/
youngfogey1		#78	[-]
Posts: 280 Dec 30 09 7:25 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Fr Michael used to be a York regular. I thought he was English and living in Australia but see from Google he is Australian. aconservativesiteforpeace.info Last Edited By: youngfogey1 Dec 30 09 7:29 PM. Edited 3 times.
HieromonkAmbrose		#79	[-]
Posts: 11 Dec 30 09 8:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	People may think he is English because before moving into the Antiochian Orthodox Church (1995?) he was the Venerable Archdeacon of London. But he is an Australian born and bred and did not move out of Australia until his 30s.
hieromonachusaidanus	The Foundation	#80	[-]
Posts: 376 Dec 31 09 11:51 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It should be mentioned that there is a new foundation on which to build, for Western rite clergy, people, missions, and potential missions. Since November 2009, by decision of the Russian Church Abroad's Synod of Bishops, all Western rite foundations come under the omophor, or direct authority, of the Metropolitan (Hilarion of Eastern America and New York), and not under the omphor of the local bishop. This is what has allowed the emergence of Western rite Orthodox services in England, of all places. And I would not be surprised if it leads to more than just two new missions. Certainly I'm fielding a lot of inquiries. There is a buzz about this, because our Metropolitan is a man of unusual prayer and grace. All Orthodox respect his character and conduct, even the most crusty Old Calendarists. His diplomatic skills are legendary, and serving under him is a joy. Where it all goes, remains to be seen. Only time will tell. Now there are calls not only for a conference of the Western rite clergy within the Russian Orthodox Church, but also a Pan-Orthodox Western rite clergy conference, which could include Antiochians, Russians, and Romanians, if not others as well. All impossible to contemplate just a few years ago.
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